Posted by Dee (184.108.40.206) on September 20, 2003 at 23:30:41:
In Reply to: " To Yourself Be True! " posted by Rich (220.127.116.11) on September 20, 2003 at 06:37:45:
> > > > > Hello,
> > > > > Can someone do me a favor and read my response to 7w6 wing. I put links to AA and Carl Jung. The reason why is because if you read the Carl Jung link (lot's of info to read) and then read the AA link you'll see Carl using Christian references when he clearly wasn't Christian! Dr. Bill is the founder of AA and the origin of AA is Carl Jung influenced. Dr. Bill must have thought Jung to be Christian! AA 12 Step program is Bible based, and Dr. Bill seeked advice from Jung on spiritual awakening.
> > > > > Jung is in my opinion a self-seeking Mercurial type but you might have a different spin on this.
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > Dee
> > > > Hello Dee:
> > > > The longish article on Jung & the MBTI, is full of strawpeople! Let me say that wife & I are observing Catholics, so naturally I take dim view of the whole arch type business. I am a student of Kiersey and have read his works. They are wrong about Kiersey buying into Jung. Kiersey has reputed Jung, and the MBTI faithful ( its a cult interested in Meyers pure ) consider Kiersey a heretic! Let me say more later....
> > > > Jung was also accused of being pro Nazi! I'm sure that you are aware that the Nazis went into all kinds of puesdo-scientific garbage, which had tragic results for millons of innocent people.... Rich
> > > ***************************************************************************
> > > Hello Dee:
> > > THe whole archtype business maybe over blown. This is the the sort of thing which goes in literature classes all the time. The search for meaning in " Alice In Wonderland ", when its decided that Alice falling doen the rabbit hole, actually refers to falling into a black hole! Jan listens 2 book by DR Bolen " The Goddesses in Everywoman ", and " The Gods in Everyman ". I find this way of doing it not very good. First, you have to follow the basic myth. Second, Bolen uses a miss-mash of different styles, Ennea types, Jungian. At first, it was fun to correlate the various personality types, but it quickly became a bore, there are just too many conflicting bits & pieces....
> > >
> > > AS for Jung, he represents a common type in the late 19th & early 2oth centuries. They had lost faith in organized religion, and therfore turned to the occult, peuesdo-science, and the like, to fill tje gap. I see Jung as Idiosyncratic Style myself. I agree with Kiersey that both Jung & Freud came up with complicated schemes, that caused as much confusion as they were maent to expalin
> > > There are 2 articles in the MBTI-Enneagram Electronic Journal. In the Archives look up in issue 3 the article by Huber about MBTI & E6 recovering abusers-its one of the best articles, I have ever read! In issue 4 Huber has an article about Bill W as an E6.... I found that to be very interesting as well! ( Riso's site has alink to the journal.... )
> > > AS for the MBTI, Isobel Myers made it a valid test. It works even if you have never heard of Jung. Jan says the 5 factor tests are better, so maybe it will fade away...! Rich
> > Hi Rich and thanks!!
> > Very interesting indeed... I was interested in the "spiritual awakening" aspect of AA and Carl Jung's influence being used as well as a Priest ( that I now discovered in Sec Two: Hitting Bottom - Bill's Spiritual Conversion in the 4th issue you referred to) as to why when I go to my AA meeting is there an uncertainty as to who Dr. Bill looked to or opened up to for spiritual awakening. I am a part of an Aposotoic Church and accepted Jesus as my saviour at the same time as I joined AA. I then was able to identify with spiritual awakening however was told to keep my experience as my own and not to try influencing others to my "God as I understand him." It ok for the member to say God is AA for them or even their leather jacket as mentioned in the ej, but not Jesus.
> > Meanwhile, I find out the Dr. Bill was looking to Christianity to explain his experience and so it makes no sense to me that I can't proclaim or even inspire those in the group who really feel and perceive an experience of Trinity that might have been their spiritual awakening.
> > Low and behold, Huber is saying that their are other contradictions in AA not just this one. I like his description of alcohol "liquid courage". This make the most sense to me, call it a "mental awakening" that what I just experienced reading Huber's abstract on AA.
> > Dee : )
> Hello Dee:
> You should do what makes you feel right! In the Gospels, the Lord Jesus said that He expected His followers to do good in His Name. ( I like the joke: You get to Heaven, and the Father says that He doesn't know you. But, its okay, because you are a friend of His Son! )
> I'm not being judgemental, I have avoided drinking, smoking, and gambling my whole life because I have seen what it has done to others. That, and once I was in the grip of a complusion, that I couldn't shake. To a 3W4/ISTJ. not being in control, is a living horror! It was only when I turned back to God, that I was able to shake & control it.... Rich
Thanks! I'm Type 4w3 but am skeptical at times, which might mean I'm moving into w5 or w1. Anyway, being type 4 in a type 6 environment at AA would explain my determination to feel "unique" still and I'm not big on conformity also, I need to be understood... need to vent. I'm Christian as mentioned and think that AA is taking reference from the Holy Bible and were suppose to believe it's from Dr. Bill. Anyway, this frustrates me and I don't even know why, it just does... lol
Dee : )
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