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Re: Inventive personality type: 3w4

Re: Inventive personality type: 3w4

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Posted by Dave Kelly on April 03, 2000 at 11:10:32:

In Reply to: Re: Inventive personality type: 3w4 posted by Gigi on April 02, 2000 at 22:29:04:

Thanks Gigi,

I just came back online and want to take some time to study and think about your post.

My quick answer would follow on what Andy said: maybe you're not actually the 3w4. Maybe you're the 3w2 which I beleive *is* a Sensing type. I copied this from a previous post of mine:

: This is a neat little MBTI tool I thought I had lifted from Cory's site but can't find now (BTW thanks for the linkback, Cory).

: iNtuition/Sensing
: 1) Abstract/Concrete
: 2) Concept/Detail
: 3) Future/Present
: 4) Originality/Conventionality
: 5) Imagination/Factual

: You can use it to differentiate the MBTI "N" from "S" types. Comes in handy when trying to decide between ENTP and ESTP, 3w4 and 3w2, and Inventive and Self-Confident.

All the points you make about the 3 seem to point to the Sensing side. I hold that the 3w4 corresponds to ENTP and thus would show more of the intuitive attributes: abstract, conceptual, future oriented, original, and imaginative.

Anyway, I'm going to keep studying your post - you bring up lots of interesting points. I do worry that my description is so general and abstract that it sounds like an "astrological reading," that anyone could find themselves in it. The only mitigating circumstance is that Cory seems to find himself in *every* description, anyway.

Dave

: Hi Dave!

: I am a 3w4 and an Extravert with Sensing and Thinking functions. I have yet to decide which is the dominant one, but I feel like it might be the thinking.

: I am a bit puzzled by your post. Do you mean to say that 3w4s who are also ENTPs are the Inventive Personality Types?

: I take it that you mean "inventive" in finding solutions to problems of any kind. "Innovative" in the sense that the 3 handles the situation in the best possible way.

: The first thing I want to point out is that your list of 10 points must sound like an "astrological reading." Look, Cory finds himself in them and he is no 3!

: As a 3 I agree with many of the points except the following. The "self-conciousness" part: A 3w4 does not usually seek for approval. Not enough that you can list it as a trait.

: The "innovation" section is not all true either. A 3w4 will accomodate tradition and routine if it serves the end goal.

: Secondly, your "innovation" and "self-conciousness" points do not go together. How can a person who is independent and reluctant to do things as they were always done also seek approval?

: Thirdly, the follwing traits of an ENTP do not fit a 3w4 at all, so IMO a 3w4 cannot be an ENTP.

: -ENTPs are not strong in completing projects. 3s complete projects. They are adamant, persistent; they are survivors. If a 3w4 does not complete a project then s/he is ill or non-functional, etc.

:
: -ENTPs are impulsive. 3s are *not* impulsive. On the contrary, they think, calculate, contemplate, use their will-power, and act. They may be quick, but they are not impulsive.

: -ENTPs hate routine. 3s will accomodate routine if necessary, if it serves the purpose of dealing with the situation.

: -ENTPs hate planning. 3s plan. Oh, a lot of fore-thinking and planning is involved, I assure you.

: -ENTPs value inspiration above everything else. 3s value the immediate situation above everything else.

: -ENTPs are after possibilities. 3w4s are after actualities.

: As a last thing, I don't really want to be categorical in what I said above. After all, this weekend I met an 8 who is an INFJ and a 3 who is a INXP. At least they said so.

: So, what do you think?

:
: : This is my new construct for the Inventive personality type, which corresponds to the 3w4 and the ENTP.

: :

Idealized self-image. Individuals of the Inventive type develop highly idealized images of themselves with which they identify and which they love. The person is his idealized self and seems to adore it (Glad, 494).

: :
Subdued demeanor. Persons of the Inventive type are energetic, but phlegmatic in temperament. "They can be quiet, rather private, subdued in demeanor, and have artistic interests and aesthetic sensibilities (Riso, 102)."

: :
Attention. Individuals of the Inventive type have a tendency to behave in such a way as to attract attention. "They can be subtle show-offs, but show-offs nonetheless (Riso, 103)."

: :
Openness to culture. The Inventive person has unusual thought processes, values intellectual matters, and judges in unconventional terms. He or she is aesthetically reactive and has a wide range of interests (McCrae and John).

: :
Intelligence. "Intelligence will typically be emphasized in their self-images and social dealings." They put great stock in their ideas and demand that others do likewise (Riso, 103).

: :
Competence. The faith of those of the Inventive type is "in their ability to improvise something, and they display an unusual talent for rising to the expediency of a situation (Keirsey, 184)." Their focus is on competent excellence in performance.

: :
Innovation. The Inventive type maintains an independent view and is "the most reluctant of all the types to do things in a particular manner just because that is the way things always have been done (Keirsey, 183)." They are inventors and innovators.

: :
Cleverness. They are mentally bright and quick-witted. For those of the Inventive type "to be taken in, to be manipulated by another, is humiliating; this offends their joy in being masters of the art of oneupmanship (Keirsey, 185)."

: :
Status. They are highly competitive in pursuit of success and prestige. They want very much to be outstanding in some way (Riso, 103), to gain recognition, even fame and glory.

: :
Self-consciousness Persons of the Inventive type look to others for approval (Reich, 47). They are very conscious of how others treat them (Riso, 103) and highly sensitive to criticism (Oldham, 89) and negative evaluation.
: :

: : Dave

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Comments:
: Thanks Gigi, : I just came back online and want to take some time to study and think about your post. : My quick answer would follow on what Andy said: maybe you're not actually the 3w4. Maybe you're the 3w2 which I beleive *is* a Sensing type. I copied this from a previous post of mine: : : This is a neat little MBTI tool I thought I had lifted from Cory's site <http://lifexplore.cjb.net/> but can't find now (BTW thanks for the linkback, Cory). : : iNtuition/Sensing : : 1) Abstract/Concrete : : 2) Concept/Detail : : 3) Future/Present : : 4) Originality/Conventionality : : 5) Imagination/Factual : : You can use it to differentiate the MBTI "N" from "S" types. Comes in handy when trying to decide between ENTP and ESTP, 3w4 and 3w2, and Inventive and Self-Confident. : All the points you make about the 3 seem to point to the Sensing side. I hold that the 3w4 corresponds to ENTP and thus would show more of the intuitive attributes: abstract, conceptual, future oriented, original, and imaginative. : Anyway, I'm going to keep studying your post - you bring up lots of interesting points. I do worry that my description is so general and abstract that it sounds like an "astrological reading," that anyone could find themselves in it. The only mitigating circumstance is that Cory seems to find himself in *every* description, anyway. : Dave : : : Hi Dave! : : I am a 3w4 and an Extravert with Sensing and Thinking functions. I have yet to decide which is the dominant one, but I feel like it might be the thinking. : : I am a bit puzzled by your post. Do you mean to say that 3w4s who are also ENTPs are the Inventive Personality Types? : : I take it that you mean "inventive" in finding solutions to problems of any kind. "Innovative" in the sense that the 3 handles the situation in the best possible way. : : The first thing I want to point out is that your list of 10 points must sound like an "astrological reading." Look, Cory finds himself in them and he is no 3! : : As a 3 I agree with many of the points except the following. The "self-conciousness" part: A 3w4 does not usually seek for approval. Not enough that you can list it as a trait. : : The "innovation" section is not all true either. A 3w4 will accomodate tradition and routine if it serves the end goal. : : Secondly, your "innovation" and "self-conciousness" points do not go together. How can a person who is independent and reluctant to do things as they were always done also seek approval? : : Thirdly, the follwing traits of an ENTP do not fit a 3w4 at all, so IMO a 3w4 cannot be an ENTP. : : -ENTPs are not strong in completing projects. 3s complete projects. They are adamant, persistent; they are survivors. If a 3w4 does not complete a project then s/he is ill or non-functional, etc. : : : : -ENTPs are impulsive. 3s are *not* impulsive. On the contrary, they think, calculate, contemplate, use their will-power, and act. They may be quick, but they are not impulsive. : : -ENTPs hate routine. 3s will accomodate routine if necessary, if it serves the purpose of dealing with the situation. : : -ENTPs hate planning. 3s plan. Oh, a lot of fore-thinking and planning is involved, I assure you. : : -ENTPs value inspiration above everything else. 3s value the immediate situation above everything else. : : -ENTPs are after possibilities. 3w4s are after actualities. : : As a last thing, I don't really want to be categorical in what I said above. After all, this weekend I met an 8 who is an INFJ and a 3 who is a INXP. At least they said so. : : So, what do you think? : : : : : : This is my new construct for the Inventive personality type, which corresponds to the 3w4 and the ENTP. : : : <OL> : : : <LI>Idealized self-image. Individuals of the Inventive type develop highly idealized images of themselves with which they identify and which they love. The person is his idealized self and seems to adore it (Glad, 494). : : : <LI>Subdued demeanor. Persons of the Inventive type are energetic, but phlegmatic in temperament. "They can be quiet, rather private, subdued in demeanor, and have artistic interests and aesthetic sensibilities (Riso, 102)." : : : <LI>Attention. Individuals of the Inventive type have a tendency to behave in such a way as to attract attention. "They can be subtle show-offs, but show-offs nonetheless (Riso, 103)." : : : <LI>Openness to culture. The Inventive person has unusual thought processes, values intellectual matters, and judges in unconventional terms. He or she is aesthetically reactive and has a wide range of interests (McCrae and John). : : : <LI>Intelligence. "Intelligence will typically be emphasized in their self-images and social dealings." They put great stock in their ideas and demand that others do likewise (Riso, 103). : : : <LI>Competence. The faith of those of the Inventive type is "in their ability to improvise something, and they display an unusual talent for rising to the expediency of a situation (Keirsey, 184)." Their focus is on competent excellence in performance. : : : <LI>Innovation. The Inventive type maintains an independent view and is "the most reluctant of all the types to do things in a particular manner just because that is the way things always have been done (Keirsey, 183)." They are inventors and innovators. : : : <LI>Cleverness. They are mentally bright and quick-witted. For those of the Inventive type "to be taken in, to be manipulated by another, is humiliating; this offends their joy in being masters of the art of oneupmanship (Keirsey, 185)." : : : <LI>Status. They are highly competitive in pursuit of success and prestige. They want very much to be outstanding in some way (Riso, 103), to gain recognition, even fame and glory. : : : <LI>Self-consciousness Persons of the Inventive type look to others for approval (Reich, 47). They are very conscious of how others treat them (Riso, 103) and highly sensitive to criticism (Oldham, 89) and negative evaluation. : : : </OL> : : : Dave

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