Posted by Flower Pagan (188.8.131.52) on March 14, 2003 at 00:23:35:
In Reply to: Re: Honesty and Etiquette posted by emoot(: (184.108.40.206) on March 12, 2003 at 10:56:16:
FP: My computer was acting a little on the crazy side. I guess, it haven't fully adjusted to having more hard drives added to it that was in my old computer that was collecting dust, which I used before I had this one. My sweet Froggy put it the hard drives inside of the computer. I just need more memory and the old computer memory is incompatible with this computer, unfortunately. I put the initials by your words, so it won't be too confusing for when I add my response to this post.
Gm: > > Emoot when I was reading your post something really struck me. I really agree with everything you are saying and I too value honesty. For me, authenticity is necessary always. Some would disagree with you though. What about saying someone's 'looks great' even when you don't think they do? What about saying thank you even when you don't mean it? I realize these are small examples, but they form the basis for the larger issue.
FP: I believe there is something good about everybody, which makes my compliments authentic and honest. Of course, people have challenged me on this beliefs once in a while, and then we will laugh about it. As far as saying, Thank You, I always mean it because I appreciate the things people do for me, even the wait staff at the restaurant. I appreciate kindness. If you don't feel those words, why bother. Just keep your thoughts to yourself if you want to.
Em: > = This is an interesting thought. In genereal people tell little white lies to avoid hurting people's feelings, such as in the case when someone wants an opinion of their appearance. I'd say if that bothers you then don't do it.
FP: If people ask me, I will be honest without being mean about it.
Em: > If someone truly looks like they will be arrested by the fashion police then by all means it would be the greater good to tell them before they go out and possibly embarass themselves. But when you give someone your honest opinion in a matter such as this, tact is a good tool. Honesty is always the best policy but I take care to be nice about it. There's no reason to be overly blunt or brutal. I can usually find a positive way to put things.......because after all it's usually my friends who ask me this question.
FP: I agree with you, Emoot! It is better a friend who cares about you to tell you the truth, then go in public and be humiliated unneccessarily. People have told me that I had toilet paper hanging from my pants when I am rushing in a hurry from the bathroom to go where I need to go. LOL It would be worst to find out after 200 people have seen it. LOL
Em: > In another case I have an INFJ friend who looks at my artwork from time to time and when she gives me her opinion on it she says ..."It's not my particular taste..." and then she gives me her best speculation on who would like it. She's an honest chick through and through. And that's okay because sometimes I will produce something that isn't my taste either, the project just sort went in that direction. I'll be standing there scratching my head going "who painted this"?
FP: I agree, I have told people "that it is not my style" or "not my type of colors" and remind them that I am the one who likes tropical spring-fall colors, especially bluish purples.
Em: > I am not sure I can think of a situation where someone gives me something and I would say "thank you" and not mean it, even when it is something not in my particular taste..... I still think saying "thank you" is a good thing because the person did think of me...... so I guess I am thanking them for the thought.
FP: Me too.
Gm: > I know people who go around and are nice to people because it is 'common courtesy'. I always tell these people I think that is bullshit, that one should not tell someone something because they want to hear it. The reason 'common courtesy' works is because people naturally believe you are being honest. I have wrestled with this issue because sometimes it seems the greater good for me would have been to throw out compliments I don't really mean, but I rarely do because I feel I would violate some image of myself.
FP: There has been times, I would give compliments to people because I want to communicate with them but don't know what to say. Sometimes, complimenting things that I like is easier than expressing my emotions! I agree with you, Goatman, that you should not compliment people if you don't mean it or feel it in your heart because that is lying or manipulation.
FP: Personally, I enjoy being kind towards people, even helping strangers, sometime, especially if they need it. The reward I get from that is the enjoyment of expressing my individuality and live by my code of ethics, being my authentic self, even if I am a little strange. I am me.
Gm: > I think it depends how organized and introverted one is with their emotions. I am very introverted with emotions, I think maybe it might be good for me to practice 'common courtesy' more often, but everytime I am encountered with a situation I feel like I am betraying myself by not being fully honest. I'll leave it up to you to define honesty.
FP: I can relate because I feel like I am betraying myself by behaving like most people, instead of having the courage to just be who I am. My feelings are introverted too, and I feel awkward and a little anxiety when I want to express my feelings beyond saying "I love you", most of the time. Maybe, I should express my feelings more, well, I will think about it. It is easier to write what I feel on paper when I am alone.
Em: > = Well, I think it is good to be polite to people in general. But being polite doesn't necessarily mean you have to be untruthful. Maybe that's a good description of how my INFJ friend is...she's politely truthful. Find something positive to say truthfully..... granted that kind of makes it a bit more challenging but the more you do it the better you will be.
FP: I agree with you on that one! I am a living example of that! My best friend, Rye, is politely truthful too! She scored INFP on her first test, but she show more J qualities. She doesn't pretend to want to be your friend and smile in your face if that is not what she feels. She would respectfully keep to herself. She also exhibit qualities of ENFJ. She rather be a leader because she is not a team player by nature. She isn't an extrovert, though she can be quite talkative and funny with me, and more so with Froggy because they both have a goofy sense of humor that is out of my league!
Em: > Wow, I sound a bit like Miss Manners today....(:
FP: Yea, you sort of remind me of a nicer 9w1 than I am or a 2w1. LOL
Em: > Anyway, I hope this helped you,
Em: > emoot(: 4w5/INFP
FP: I would never have guested that you were a 4w5. You seem so nice and saintly in your posts that I thought you were like a 2w1. I would never have thought of you as a real introverted person. You appear too healthy to be a type 4 connecting to 2, but more like a healthy 2 connecting to 4. I mean that in a positive way. I imagine you this loving and compassionate person who is a positive outlooker, like me, but more positive and loving than I am. I always admire how Twos can love and sacrifice their lives for the benefit of others. Oprah, loves rewarding those people with lots of money and gifts. I am touched by them.
FP: I see them all of my life as everyday heros that blessed me with their love and acceptance, especially when I am in need. I don't think I would have made it this far without God using Twos in my life, periodically. I admit, average Twos can annoy me with their intrusive gushy love for me, when I want to withdraw during my stress point. I get overwhelmed pretty easily when I am under stress and require more gentleness and peace.
Em: > PS: Since you are an ENFP.... your personality description is all about honesty...... in your strengths category.... it mentions honesty, authenticity and genuineness.... but I bet you already knew all that...
> I sort had to review it for myself because most of the time I am abosrbed in my own little INFP universe.
FP: I have scored ENFP on many tests, though those tests are more difficult than Enneagram test because it is hard for me to chose between Introvert and Extrovert, Sensing and iNtuition, Thinking and Feeling; however, Perceiving is not hard because I am that most of the time, but my wing brings out the Judging qualities in me. I do love order and freedom to be playful. Riso and Hudson explains my difficulty (I am glad somebody understands my dilemma):
Understanding of the Enneagram page 274
* Relies on a mix of two other centers: Thinking and Feeling.
* Divides self into two different modes: Sensing mode and daydream mode (iNtuition).
FP: Riso also speaks of my personality to be ambiverts, which explains why I have qualities of introverts and extroverts. I am not one above the other, though my external appearance appears to be engaging,especially on sunny warm days. ha, ha, ha.
Em: > Warm, sociable and friendly, ENFPs are quick to form new relationships. Moved by deep feelings and emotions, they communicate in an open, honest way. Using their Intuition to look beyond the obvious known facts in a given situation, they are insightful, free-thinking, perceptive individuals. Inclined to question conventional wisdom, they tend to focus on the deeper hidden patterns and meanings behind surface forms and structures, and enjoy approaching old problems from novel theoretical perspectives. Spontaneous, enthusiastic and quick to act, they may find rigid systems and procedures stifling. Lively, energetic and versatile, they enjoy variety and change and will actively seek out new, exciting challenges. Valuing authenticity and genuineness in their relationships, their friends and colleagues will appreciate the support and encouragement they freely offer. Focusing on the broader picture, they approach problems in a strategic, expedient way, seeking novel, creative solutions to problems.
FP: I see a lot of these traits in me. I am kind of wondering what has happened to me because I used to be more outgoing and exhibit these qualities. Of course, this is only one major aspect of me. I don't overlook practical results, which is important to me. I do appreciate the facts, especially when it is a factual thing, like what happened to "Elizebeth" who was return back home to Salt Lake City, Utah. I see they are doing a lot of speculation, but I am be happy to hear the facts from her mouth when she is ready. Speculation and Facts have a place.
FP: Emoot, I think something is wrong with me because your post reminds me of how outgoing I was. Maybe, I still am and just have isolated myself too much to see myself this way all the time. I was so nervous going in front of the church to speak with the minister that I sware, I probably look like a flake. It was my first time speaking to a minister in a regular church in years. I only spoke with Unity Ministers and said hi to my former paster, one a year, atleast, but I don't talk with him, like I used to. It was the first time, it felt natural for me to be in a regular church, and I don't know if that means I made it back in to stay or it is just a phase (visit). I wanted to thank the minister for his message because it was beneficial to me. I am reading an apologetic book on the Trinity and another one on church history. I already read one on the Bible. Do you know anything about Calvary Chapel?
FP: Worshipper of the creator of the flowers and beauty!
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