Posted by vaibhav (184.108.40.206) on April 11, 2003 at 14:13:36:
In Reply to: The history of wars posted by Flower Pagan (220.127.116.11) on February 13, 2003 at 02:25:04:
> > > I am wondering how do you feel about all that is happening in our world now with the situation with Bush/US wants to persue war with Saddam/Iraq and S. Korea wants to follow the US's examle in attacking N. Korea? I know Fours are good at expressing feelings and sometimes help other types to get more in touch with their feelings too, so please feel free to express yourself freely and please, tell us why you feel the way you do.
> > = I think this situation is far more complicated than the media can comprehend. I honestly believe that the media has no way of covering these events factually. They may be able to report the events when they occur but they have no real insight into the reasons why these things are happening. The things that are going on now are a combination of many things that have been festering for years. And only those who have been directly involved can say why these things have come to pass. The rest of us only have our opinions.
> FP: I agree with you. I know the situation with the US and Saddam has been going on for atleast 12 years, according to the government. So, I am aware that President Bush of the present did not start all of this stuff. Some people told me that it started with the father. I don't know that to be a fact.
> > Has the middle east ever been a calm and peaceful place? I can't remember a time when something wasn't going on with Isreal, Palestine, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait,Pakistan, Afghanistan, Sudan etc. Every pot will reach a boiling point if it sits long enough on the stove. The middle eastern unrest has finally accumulated enough technology and weapons of mass destruction to want to tango with the rest of the world.
> FP: The situation between Palestine and Israel started in the 1940s, and the war between Israel and Eygpt was also during that decade. I learned in a documentary that Afghanistan was into fashion and beauty, like Paris before the Taliban took over and destroyed everything the women have accomplished. I was in awe in how much they reminded me of Paris, France!
> > All of these things start in the same old place. With hate, racism, greed, and lust for power. These things did not start when Bush was elected..... they were occurring during the Clinton, Bush Sr., and Reagan admistrations as well. With Bush Sr. we had the first conflict with Iraq; with Clinton - the US bombed a factory in the Sudan, the WTC was attacked the first time, and the USS Cole was attacked in Yemen; and now with GW we have 9/11terrorists and Saddam.
> FP: I agree with you. I know the situation with the US and Saddam has been going on for about 12 years, according to the government. So, I am aware that President Bush of the present did not start all of this stuff. Some people told me that it started with the father. I don't know that to be a fact. President Bush is not in an easy situation, and I really appreciate that he remain calm through it all because if he could have his way, he would have bombed them all within a few days of 9/11! He is a man who does not waste time. If you don't believe me, ask those who lived in Texas and had him as a governor. People on death row knows that Bush was not somebody you want to play with. He did not tolerated criminals!!!
> > In my view, 9/11 changed everything. We can no longer think that here in the USA that we are safe and that war only affects other lands.
> FP: I agree with you on that, but you still have people who are in denial.
> > Our way of life has been seriously threatened. I don't think Bin Laden (or his cronies) and Saddam are best friends but I do think that they have a common goal which hopes to remove the US and its allies from the world scene. I feel sure they have helped each other with the exchange of weapons. And there are Muslims in Iraq who follow Bin Laden. Why do you suppose Bin Ladin reared his ugly head yesterday on TV with that pep talk to the faithful in Iraq. He's stirring the pot.
> FP: I believe Saddam support Al Qaeda and Bin Laden with land to dwell on and for training and perhaps, financially, who knows. Of course, this is speculation on my part since I don't have the facts.
> > "We stress the importance of suicide bombings against the enemy, these attacks have scared Americans and Israelis like never before," says, Bin Laden.
> FP: Well, he did speak the truth but with a little exaggeration. Why are we supporting the Iraelis people in taking the land away from the natives, Palestinians, like the Europeans took the land away from the Native Americans. I guess, America does have a double standard, in some cases.
> > And Saddam is cut from the same cloth Hitler was cut from. He's a despot. He has no regard for human life and he has ruthlessly killed thousands of his own people.(There are many Iraqi citizens who want the US to help them get out from under Saddam's rule) He wants to kill more. He wants more power....why else would he have all those weapons if he was not planning an attack on other countries. He has consistantly lied and ignored the NATO rules. That puts the whole world in danger. The fires of war have been stoked and there is little hope that Saddam will choose the exile route.
> FP: Saddam's Kuwaiti neighbors wants Saddam to be removed as well. They lived in constant fear of what he may do to them. They tell us that other countries don't know what this man is like up close. Saddam even have rapists on his staff to rape women as a form of punishment. I could not believe I have heard that from one of his own people's mouth. That is sick. He is an entranced type Eight, why would he take the exile route? I am wondering what Nato is going to decide after hearing the report on Friday, February 14th. We already have it on camera the proof that he have weapons on his land that he lied about not having. Do you think he will brive UN and Nato to leave him alone?
> > As much as I realize that war is a horrible thing and I hate that it happens....I also realize that we cannot peacefully control those who force it upon us. If we do nothing the problem won't go away. We are left, unfortunately, with only the choice of trying to protect ourselves.
> FP: I hate the war too. Killing innocent lives is always a horrible thing to do. I hope that US and UN will work in harmony together to bring about a solution that is best for everybody, not just US. The US will be in financial trouble if we try to deal with this on our own! We can't take care of another country and barely have enough to continue to take care of Afghanistan. The US have given them food and some supplies, but have not did much to rebuild their broken country from what I have heard, so far. It will be more attacks from Islamic terrorists and countries if the US tries to attack Iraq alone. I hope UN will do the honest and right thing. Perhaps, we need to send the Bush Administration exerts about unhealthy type Eights, so they will have a better understanding of his personality and what they are dealing with.
> > Throughout history wars have been inevitable and many times unavoidable events, because, sadly, humans are not naturally peaceful beings. There will always someone who wants to take something from someone else. Whether we like it or not, our history has been shaped by war, our freedom has been won by war and our safety has been protected and defended in wars waged by others.
> FP: True, unfortunately. My ancestories was killed and betrayed by war, now they have only reservations and casinos left as natives of the land that us Americans live on now. I don't know much about my ancestory because many of them lost their native identity and are unable to past it down to the next generation like my father and my grandfather. It is sad. Of course, it took wars to liberate my mother's ancestory from the bounds of slavery and oppression by the south. Wars has been here, even during the Old Testament or the Torah has been written and perhaps, longer.
> > One last note, on our human nature.... when you look at the number of movies that come out of Hollywood that depict gratuitous violence and earn millions in the box office, is there any doubt about humanity's appetite for violence? If we were truly peaceful beings... we would have no interest in watching, let alone paying to watch, violence even in its fictitional form. Even though I think peace is still something to be hoped for, I find it very hypocritical that many anti-war actors in Hollywood don't see this distinction when they choose to star in violent films. It seems to me that if they want change then they should start with themselves and be more responsible in the area(movies) in which they have control.
> FP: Perhaps, there need to be more valid scientic research needs to be done on this subject of how violence form of entertainment effects people. Some people may say, well, I watch violence on TV and Movies and I am not violent. They are beginning to noticed that association of violent video games and how it effects young people, especially after a kid have shot a lot of people dead, which could have been preventable.
> > I was reading a book the other day that mentioned in the average prime time evening TV slot that violent acts were depicted 1000 times more than they are in reality. That coupled with the fact that many of the popular "reality" shows, which focus on petty human conflicts, really causes me to question the entertainment industry and their motivations.
> FP: Ratings! Ratings! Ratings is their motivation because it brings in more money and higher paid commercials, etc... Don't forget awards! There is lust of the flesh (ego?), lust of the eyes (greed?) and the pride of life (power?). This is being of the world, which offer no peace, according to what I remember reading in the New Testament many years ago in the book of 1 John. Well, this is one way of looking at it. I wish the whole world what every Nine values, Autonomy and Freedom in a world of PEACE!
> > oh, well......
> > emoot
> I wish you peace and safety.
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