Posted by emoot(: (184.108.40.206) on April 16, 2003 at 10:06:20:
In Reply to: Reply to emoot posted by Justin (220.127.116.11) on April 15, 2003 at 23:21:11:
> Thank you very much for taking your time to reply, emoot. It was much appreciated. I have to agree that your meaning to life may not neccesary be applicable to me, which is really why I decided to post my question on the board. I don't really recall what being a Type 4 is all about any longer, but I remember than a year ago when I first found out that I am, I really related myself to it very much. In fact, I Was really content to have a group to related to or at least, know I have somewhere to belong. I wonder if this is one of the characteristic of 4s- always seeking somewhere to belong. And if so, perhaps an idication of a lower self-esteem and higer insecurity, then tracable bakc perhaps to a certain childhood pattern. But these are beside the point (though by that point raises yet another characteristic of 4s which I suspect to be- being anylitical, and sometimes, pro-cynical/ism)
=Well, I'm an INFP/4w5 and identity has long been a big issue for me. Belonging is important, even to an extreme introvert.....we all need human interaction for growth, love and learning. We all need to feel understood by someone.
On one level, I am learning that all types have a basice fear.....and fear is *basically* insecurity. Others deal with it differently but it is still a inescapable human thing. None of us, not even the healthiest of us, have it all together... we are all imperfect beings who make mistakes.
I know that fours struggle the most with the reality of pain in life. Life is hard...there ain't no doubt about that. Personally, I had a very healthy childhood but perhaps that has caused me to not have a realistic view of life.... Because enough awful things(which cause pain) happen just by themselves ( or by that I mean, things that are out of our personal control like car accidents, sickness, 9/11, war, etc...) And there are the bad things that happen as a result of our bad choices.....by this I mean our own shortcomings that we are aware of but we don't curb ....like decisions made from addictive behaviors or selfish agendas.
I think fours being so sensitive in feeling and idealistic in nature -at the same time......have a very difficult situation feeling the reality of pain so strongly in life and trying to somehow make it make sense to their idealistic perfect picture of what life should be. Pain doesn't make sense, not really, to an idealist. SO whenever anything unpleasant happens... I think it so surprises fours, that they get a little hung up on it and bitter (melancholy) because it is essentially the blot on their perfect picture. Feeling pain(that idealistically shouldn't be there) so profoundly may be hard to let go of or become a point of fascination. If it's the blot on our pretty picture....we will focus on it and perhaps try as we may to wipe it off.
Too, the basic question in life for fours is..."why?"
So it is natural for a four to be perplexed and ask a question like..."why did 9/11 happen?" .....and greater questions..."why am I here" ..... I personally have a very hard time believing I'm here just to live a hard life and then die. Some might say ........but you can find your purpose in future generations...but that is somehow not enough for me....because eventually they will all being taking a giant dirt nap too..... so the question of purpose has to stem beyond humans for me.
> Dear emoot, the meaning to your life seems one which would work out, because your focus would be outwards- towards achievement. In other words, living for the future, of what it could be and not what it has been or what it is now. My preoccupation however, seems to be one of my present, my past, and last but not least, my worries about my future. A bit self-contradictory, I sense this must be, however, I will not throw a campaign against any suggestions that I am being self contradictory caus eI probably am- and this is what drives me nuts. My question to the meaning of life relates much to the life which I used to have, a life where hope was put on God. But somewhere in some point of time, I just decided to try and see the world without God. Yet to date, I have sought no answers of satisfaction. The reason I 'left' God (technially, one can never leave God once he HAS accepted God), is because I cannot differ what is God and what is man.
= Well, you know, when I mentioned the greater good thing....I was talking about God, but.... I would have said that upfront but I have found when communicating with people on message boards that God can be a touchy subject. I don't know what people's backgrounds(which can vary to an infinite degree) with the subject are so I try to feel it out delicately...to see if they are open to conversation on it. (I've kind of established a few rules for myself...on how to brace the subject....... 1. I don't force my beliefs on others 2. I won't argue about it. (all I have is pesonal proof). 3. All I can say is what I know and I don't know it all......(;
Also, I'll mention that my faith is Christian......my faith, not my religion.(I say that because faith and religion aren't the same)
So, with that in mind, I can take a stab at your first question: Not knowing where man and God differ.
The biggest difference in my understanding is that God is without sin and man is not.....
> People tend to see believers of Christ as one who attends church, but trust me, there is much more to that, and to some extent much less to that. A faith to Christ (or as a matter, faith to anthing), though my eyes is not one about what physical actions manifests in. It's not about whethe rI GO to chruc, but rather, whether my heart is IN chruch. And that having said, to be with Christ would be techinically a matter of whether I love Christ. (Sorry, not trying to be spreading some kind of religion here, just making a point).
= I totally understand what you are saying here.
The problem with the Christian comunity I see however, is that blind sheeps just tend to flock together (people who attend church so denoted as sheeps here).
Sometimes, without us noticing, humans are weak, we just are. Without us knowing, we start believing in not God, but we start beliving in what the MAJORITY does. And that is when what the Bible says become what man says. Because the pastor or your cell group leader would be interpreting the bible in terms of what he or this she sees it (subjected in turn to the personal history/ background he/ she has come out of).
= I know what you are saying. What you are saying is very true. People can only relate from what they have as personal experience. People choose not to believe in God for that reason too, if they have had a bad experience with misguided or out and out wrongly motivated religious types. But I would say that the beauty of the bible in my eyes... is that because humans are all different the Bible can say different things to different people, we all have different needs and we are all in different places in life so we can investigate it for ourselves and draw our own views of it..... (plus there's a whole lot of stuff in there that even theologians can't agree on.....I think it is okay to disagree because that is a natural part of personal learning). However it does have some universal truths that speak to everyone pretty much on the same level.... (or that most Christians will agree on.....you know, the basic guidelines of right and wrong).
The other thing I think you are getting at is that one can't just blindly believe in Christ and not know why they believe as they do. It shouldn't be a following the crowd kind of thing. If one is to believe in Christ, it can only truthfully be done by knowing why one believes. It has to be sincere.
I believe every Christian has a personal relationship with Christ that is completely unique. Although the relationship itself serves the same purpose for all Christians the experience is different for all. And I believe that all Christians have their own unique Christ directed purpose in life. Different gifts too.
And when it comes to *churches..... all churches are not created equally. I'd say that there are some churches out there which are doing the exact opposite thing Christ wanted. They are hung up on rules and religious processes. Christ's purpose was to release us from the law ( rigid rules- ) Some churches have made church about the rules and become very unaccepting of those who fall short of obeying them. (Christ hung out with the outcasts most of the time....so you know he didn't value social status or pompous religous pharisaic behavior) It's my understanding, and I have heard it said that Christ doesn't like religion(man has contrived it). It shouldn't be about following the rules, it should be about wanting to model Christ-like behavior. Knowing right from wrong comes as a want not a "have-to".
* let me mention that church is an important part of Christian life - the place to fellowship and belong with others of faith. But it needs to be a church that understands Christ is the point .....not the rules.
I mean even Christians aren't without faults.....they are still quite capable of screwing up. The difference is that they recognize that they do and try to sincerely curb it.....in order to have a less self-caused problematic lfe which leads to real purpose.
> Where then is the REAL God? If the matter of God is one which is determined by the sight of man, then who IS God? Everyone would have their "own" God, or every group would have their own God... then I ask- where is God? and Which one is THE truth?
Well, I might me repeating something I already said but.... To me God is revealed to each person who is seeking truth in their own time. I mean I have always had a sense that God existed....just a knowing feeling of something greater than myself. The reason I think that Christ is the answer to this feeling is because He answers the majority of my questions..... on that personal unique level..... and the more I apply it to my life the less problems I encounter. It is a life of hope. And amazingly...quiet contentment.
Too I think it is this feeling of God's existence is what most people are looking for in life.
> Having said that, I again self contradict myself, because I rebuke the practice of man to hang with the norm, yet in my seeking of meanign to life I however sense a need for relation to people to satisfy a degree of my loneliness. A big joke this turns out to be isn't it?
=I think you are on your way to understanding something very deep, complex and oddly simple. (how's that for a contradiction?.... well a flower is a simple thing but when you look at the atoms that make it up .....it ain't so simple.)
Ever read Mere Christianity...by C.S. Lewis?
Hope this was somewhat helpful,
emoot(: a garden variety emu but an odd bird none the less....(:
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