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thoughts.....
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thoughts.....


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Posted by emoot(: (66.250.68.40) on May 23, 2003 at 13:51:49:

In Reply to: Do 4s internalize other people's pain? posted by old friend (171.75.240.24) on May 22, 2003 at 22:50:48:

>
> I'm becoming aware that at times there is pain so deep and wrenching that it can't just be inside me or of my own being/making/situation...it has to include the pain other people are feeling. So it exponentiates. Interesting.

> My questions:

> Have any of you come to recognize this within your struggles or pain at times?

=Hmmm.... well, I know that when I see other people cry that I feel great empathy for them. And quite often, I am moved to tears as well. But I have noticed a change in myself.....lately as I have been assisting in a program where many are suffering great pain, that I, being somewhat in a leader position(which is a little draining for my introversion), am using my thinking mode more in order to help them. I still feel for them greatly, but I am very serious in trying to be composed enough to point them in the right direction.

From my perspective this sensitivity is a gift. I mean, I am an INFP/4w5 .... sometimes called the Healer/Advocate..... and I think this thing of sensing pain in others is part of the healer mode of wanting to help heal conflict/pain/relationships.

> And how do you turn your experience into something healing for others as well as for yourself?

= Well, this is something else I have learned when it comes to the personal pain that one goes through.... whatever a person's greatest source of pain is.... is also their greatest area of help for others.

What I mean by that, is that if you have struggled with something very painful.... such as a loss of a loved one, abuse from childhood, depression, alcoholism, etc.....

And you are still here to talk about it, then talking about it with others who are in the same boat...heals a great deal of pain. This thing of knowing that you aren't alone, bonding and connecting with others gives people of a real sense of being and acceptance. I see it as a spiritual thing as well.

In general I think talking about whatever is painful to someone is theraputic. It is very difficult for some.... but denying pain only causes more pain for ourselves and for others(and many are never aware of that.... it's like some have been so crippled by pain that it has blinded them to the pain they cause themselves or to others.)

> And, how do you determine what (including the amount) is your own pain and what is it that is being filtered or channeled through you?

=My own pain is much closer, deep on the inside....under control but tugs at me when certain feelings or buttons are pushed.(This kind of pain, when not acknowledge or dealt with, feels very sad and hopless on the inside.....)

The pain of others is something that doesn't hurt me directly but indirectly....it's more of a feeling of being put out with the situation or cause of others pain. An irritation with the injustice of pain.....the fact that it leaves no person untouched. The fact that it does so much damage. The fact that it even exists.....

Pain is a vicious circle....pain causes pain.

Plus, let me add, that the term "healing" only goes so far with pain. I think I have learned that healing pain really just means getting it under control where it doesn't rule your life or impede it. I have heard it compared to taming a tiger.....once you deal with it and tame it.... it doesn't disappear but it understands where it's place is and it can't cause anymore hurt. You have to have a healthy acknowledgement of it ....

> And, on a more literary note, was Rumi a 4?

> "Confused and distraught "

> Again I am raging, I am in such a state by your soul that every
> bond you bind, I break, by your soul.
> I am like heaven, like the moon, like a candle by your glow; I am all
> reason, all love, all soul, by your soul.
> My joy is of your doing, my hangover of your thorn; whatever
> side you turn your face, I turn mine, by your soul.
> I spoke in error; it is not surprising to speak in error in this
> state, for this moment I cannot tell cup from wine, by your soul.
> I am that madman in bonds who binds the "divs"; I, the madman,
> am a Solomon with the "divs", by your soul.
> Whatever form other than love raises up its head from my
> heart, forthwith I drive it out of the court of my heart, by your soul.
> Come, you who have departed, for the thing that departs
> comes back; neither you are that, by my soul, nor I am that, by your soul.
> Disbeliever, do not conceal disbelief in your soul, for I will recite
> the secret of your destiny, by your soul.
> Out of love of Sham-e Tabrizi, through wakefulness or
> nightrising, like a spinning mote I am distraught, by your soul.

>
> "Mystical Poems of Rumi 2" A. J. Arberry

= I don't know if Rumi was a 4.... but judging by the poetry, I'd say so.

emoot(:



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