Posted by Kitty (22.214.171.124) on August 28, 2003 at 00:07:34:
In Reply to: Re: No such thing as Type Four ISFJ posted by Dee (126.96.36.199) on August 27, 2003 at 13:02:19:
> > > > > > Their is no such thing as a Type Four ISFJ. You are either a Two or a Six.
> > > > >
> > > > > here it is...
> > > > > Type 4 - 13.3
> > > > > Type 6 - 12.7
> > > > > Type 2 - 11.7
> > > > > Type 7 - 10.7
> > > > > Type 9 - 10.3
> > > > > Type 3 - 9.3
> > > > > Type 5 - 7.3
> > > > > Wing 4w3 - 18
> > > > > Wing 6w7 - 18
> > > > > Wing 7w6 - 17
> > > > > Wing 4w5 - 16.9
> > > >
> > > > > Wing 2w3 - 16.4
> > > > > Wing 6w5 - 16.3
> > > > > Wing 3w4 - 16
> > > > > Wing 3w2 - 15.2
> > > > > Wing 5w4 - 13.9
> > > > > Wing 5w6 - 13.6
> > > > > Wing 7w8 - 12.3
> > > > > Wing 2w1 - 12.2
> > > > > Wing 9w8 - 12
> > > > > Wing 9w1 - 10.8
> > > > >
> > > > > Dee
> > > >
> > > > MOST 4's are INFJ. Richard Riso points out that your highest score may be NOT be your true type and that YOUR SECOND AND THIRD SCORES MAY MORE CLOSELY MATCH YOUR TRUE TYPE. It was suggested that you are likely a 2 or a 6 based on your MBTI type. Note that your second and third E scores are 6 and 2.
> > >
> > > Thanks Meow,
> > > Very interesting...
> > > I will do the MBTI again and see what comes up. I find though that I can identify most with Type 4. When I read the description of ISFJ, there isn't anything in the description that I don't agree with. hmmm.. I might buy a book on this as well. Jan said that it is possible however.
> > > Anyway, have you read The Power Of Now by Eckhart Tolle?
> > > I just bought it. I'm not a big reader but was recommended this book today and look forward to it's insight.
> > >
> > > Dee
> > Hi Dee -
> > I must confess Kitty is my user name - Anyway, my name is Cindy and I live in INDIANA (woo woo!) With regard to your ISFJ/Type 4 quandry, are sure you are 'S' and not 'N'?? That one little letter could explain a lot. You could read up on INFJ before going to the expense of re-taking the MBTI just to see if any of it fits. I do think Enneagram type description is more accurate. And with addtional consideration of wings, arrows, and levels of development, it is certainly more complex and encompassing.
> > How do you identify with the descriptions of type2 and type6 as compared to type4? -- Especially with regard to the basic fear and key motivations of those types? I have found my most profound feelings and needs coming back time after time to reveal core issues of shame. I clearly get 'bent out of shape' when I feel ignored, unseen, invalidated and misunderstood. This is CLASSIC FOUR STUFF! (I am 4w3 BTW) I also score very high on 1 (only 2 points off 4) possessing a need to be right as well as perfectionistic qualities. (Funny story: I was actually on 'Dr. Phil' last Christmas for my perfectionism. He referred to me as "Martha Stewart on steriods" for the 'Martha way' I approach my decorating, baking,wrapping, entertaining etc!:)) It was great!
> > Anyway, back to type -- My daughter thought I was a one (she got to take the Enneagram in her high school RELATIONSHIPS class. Times have changed huh?) But when I read the descriptions of the types, PARTICULARLY RISO'S LEVELS OF DEVELOPMENT, there was no doubt. I knew right away. Many people report this kind of 'gut' reaction -- SCARY STUFF. Interestingly,its my husband who is the 1!
> > Another thought, are either of your parents - or former caretakers - ISFJ, type2, or type6? I.E.: you COULD be identifying with one of them -and thus relating to the ISFJ descriptions, while actually being a four. One noteworthy item re_ these 2 types though, is their different CHILDHOOD ORIENTATIONS. 2s had a disconnected relationship to the protective parent - usually the father; while 6s had a connected relationship to the same parent. FOURS HAD A DISCONNECTED RELATIONSHIP TO BOTH PARENTS. That's why we turn/ed inward to our emotions to tell us who we were/are. Lack of proper mirroring still haunts us today, leaving us self-absorbed, moody, and depressed. The up side of being so identified with our feelings is that we are also sensitive, empathic, intuitive, and creative.
> > I knew I had to respond to you again when you asked about "The Power Of Now." YES! I got this book last spring - it literally jumped off the shelf at me. Somehow, I was just irresistably drawn to it -- can't explain it. It's profound and beautiful isn't it? Not exactly the kind of book you can read quickly though. I ponder it. I sometimes struggle to understand it, wishing I could just snap my fingers and DO what it says...Correction: BE what it teaches! My hunch is that if you are reading this book and are able to 'get it' you are probably not ISFJ. The reason is that I don't know a single 'S' who would be into this book. Its too complex and requires more depth than that type typically has the capacity for. My type2 ESFJ friend goes cross-eyed at this kind of material, but my type2 INFJ therapist can readily grasp it.
> > Well, I hope some of this may help you put your quandry to rest. One last tidbit I've gathered studying the Enneagram as it relates to MBTI type is that while type4's are almost always INFJ, not all INFJs are 4's. Some are 1's. My therapist is a 2. So, they don't correspond as neatly as I originally thought they did. For example, my dad (ISTJ) is an E 9w1. So is my daughter's boyfriend. But he is ISFP. Many INFPs are also 9. That almost totally opposite MBTI types (ISTJ and INFP) can both be the same E type can be confusing. It seems more simple to go with one typology or the other (now I'm going cross-eyed!)
> > Kitty
> Hi Kitty,
> Thank you for keeping with me on this one. I did my MBTI again and looked at the breakdown..., I'm INFP. It's starting to make sense now. I did the Enneagram test again, I'm still 4 W3.
> This is all about getting to the bottom of things for me,"let the healing begin!"
> I live in Toronto, Canada. I'm 34 single with no children. I get told I look like a young version of Debby Harry..., I would have to agree.
> As you have seen, I score very high on Type 2 & 6 as well. Last year I did this and scored Type 2 highest one off from type 4. In our relationship with men, who are we best suited with? I seem to be attracted to Type 3, 1 & 5. The last two men I was interested in both did this test and were Type 3. Both of them have commitment issues, I don't.
> This has left me in a sorry state let me tell you...
> You were on Dr. Phil!! That's great!!! Did it help?
> I am one of 7 children, all 2 years apart. My mom is definetly a Type 1 and my dad would be a Type 9. Both are intro's. My parents were not available to me emotionally. Neither of them have ever told me they love me. I know they do but I'm the type that needs to hear it. I don't recall ever being hugged by them. Anyway, I suffered from depression as a child and was diagnosed 3 years ago with ADD. Doctors said I have most likely had ADD my whole life and depression but because of my parents being unaware of this, I have never been treated up until recently. Being so sensitive my whole life and in my own little world, emotionally neglected 4 w3 has taken its toll on me. No one would help me so I think I became the helper. I needed some release and that's probably why I score high on Type 2.
> The thing is..."who am I???" I'm so frustrated with my life and can't stand it most of the time. I just started reading The Power Of Now last night and so far so good! "Get my out of my thoughts into Being, brings me serenity." The strange thing is I use to do this as a child and am pron to doing this anyway, so it's not difficult for me. It's putting into correct use that will be the challange for me. The concept makes perfect sense infact, I had just spoke about this concept on the board a few days ago before having heard of the book. I thought this was my own little "Unique" idea... lol.
> It actually hit home with me over a year ago and I became born again Christian. I love knowing that God loves me. I wish I new this sooner, like when I was a child. I'm not fanatical because I don't think it's healthy but I am more aware of how Trinity works in my life.
> Yep, I've got alot going on. Cindy, what do you think of what I've said so far?
> Dee : )
Hi Dee -
I think its very interesting that we both had emotionally unavailable type1 moms and type9 dads for parents! (And didn't you mention that your parents neither told you they loved you or hugged you?) Mine didn't either. That was the first thing I decided to change with my daughter. She is my only child, 17, a senior in high school. (Beautiful, sweet, caring, funny - definitley the "light of our lives!") I'm 45, married 25 years to my high school sweetheart. So, what types are best suited to us? That would have to be someone who can put up with us at our worst! :) But seriously, I think that's true with everybody, and I'm not sure it has so much to do with their type as it has to do with maturity, values, and seeing the world in a similar manner --- AND what type your parents were/are.
That said, my husband is 1w9, same as my mother, who I have the most intense unresolved issues with. I couldn't believe it when I got my parents scores and realized that I had married the person who most exemplifieded the good and the bad character traits of BOTH of my parents. Additonally, even at 17, when I knew I wanted to marry my husband, I also knew instinctively why: being a 1 (the type in our direction of integration) HE WAS EVERYTHING THAT I AM NOT -- and vice-versa. I have learned SO much in the last 9 months about all this because we are doing IMAGO Couples Therapy. The correlation between IMAGO and Enneagram type is uncanny. To save time and space here, I would definetley recommend you check out 'IMAGO.' Additional info. is available on oprah.com as Harville Hendrix, the founder of IMAGO and author of "Getting the Love You Want, A Guide for Couples," has been a guest on her show. It all goes back to childhood...
Speaking of which, I was mistaken about 2s childhood orientation. They had an AMBIVALENT relationship to the protective figure; it is 1s who had the disconnected relationship. Sorry about that. I've only been studying this stuff since last April! Also, not to disparage 3's, but personally, I would avoid them. They can be just as self-absorbed as we can. I find them so "all about me" that they have little left over after fousing on themselves and their goals to make a relationship work with a NEEDY type 4. But that's me. Having a high score of 2 as you do and tending towards caretaking roles might make a difference BECAUSE THEY WILL SENSE IT IS YOU WHO WILL ATTEND TO THEM. For me, it would seem to me a partnership doomed to competition and envy.
THANK YOU for not being fanatical! Yeah, I'm 'Born Again' too, but that isn't necessarily synonomous with real salvation or the spiritual capacity to feel God's presence in our lives. Both are done with the heart regardless of what you label the process. Much more important to have your own spiritual relationship with our Creator than to blindly subscribe to some religious dogma. I am convinced God wants the former rather than the later for all of us. Not that this has anything to do with type; however, my views are much broader than most religious affiliations comfortably allow for. (Must be the 'N' in me -- again, my type 2 ESFJ friend just doesn't 'get it' and feels much more secure with 'known and accepted' TRADITIONAL Christianity.)
Well, good chatting with you!
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