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Posted by Nyneve ( on August 29, 2003 at 09:21:51:

In Reply to: EGO IS NOT PERSONALITY posted by Charlie ( on June 12, 2003 at 03:25:41:

Yes, it's true that Gurdieff could be an asshole. He used to try to type people right away and use that to control them.

But. Gurdieff was *not* the person who came up with the enneagram. It has its roots in the Neoplatonists, in Sufi mysticism and in the Kabbala. So to judge all those who find the enneagram a useful model according to an ad hominem argument against Gurdieff is pointless. Perhaps it might help to find out something about another tradition instead of blindly following Nietzsche, another asshole.

Best, Nyneve

> The person who preached the enneagram was a confirmed conartist, ripoff shaman charlatan whatever you want to call him. Don't believe me? Check out GI Guirdeff or however the hec you spell that theif's name on google, and read about his arrests, his jobs, his scams.

> Sorry folks, but the enneagram is based in nothing other than your faith in what amounts to a bunch of lines crossing one another. It's as frivolous as astrology, and so is your reason if you accept it. In truth, people exhibit bits and pieces of different behaviors to form their own unique individual type. Thinking is self=initiative; therefore its behaviors are not determined but evolved through self-determination. I'm sure Josie, our board's naively sophisticated ignoramous, will have trouble with this one, but the "I" can conceptualize and form its own values outside of already existing patterns of behavior. The ego is the "I". The "I" is conceptual. The "I" can activate his concepts through action by means of volition. Therefore, action and behavior can be a result of conceptual philosophies discerned through living experience. Until you realize this 'can be', you will always be locked into your determined prison of behavior.

> Ok kids, lets continue. I promise to take it slow. Personality is a work in progress. You can transcend habits of behavior. And to Damian who posted in response earlier, this IS NOT ego liberation. The subjective ego is the I, not personality. The I is not going anywhere here. Learn what the ego is before you talk about it. This is liberation from behavior and habits and values and beliefs, all the things that shape a personality, in favor of a new behavior or belief or value, whichever you choose. Ego does not make personality. And ego liberation would not make anyone GOD. There is no rational correlation between the two, only the correlation given to you through enneagram elitist dogma.

> Again children: Ego is only the subjective recognition of a self...duh. And by the way, myers-briggs wants nothing to do with the enneagram quackpots of psychology, so stop sporting their names. To those who don't want to listen, who want to shun me with typical moronic insults, go away to your shells and live in your deluded fairytale of a grouped personality. That is about as ridiculous as the guy who drummed up the enneagram to sell it to anti-conceptual people like Josie, a typical consumptive beast of dumbed down commercialized junk.

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