Posted by Jenny (22.214.171.124) on April 15, 2003 at 22:49:49:
In Reply to: Re: sometimes I run... posted by Leo (126.96.36.199) on April 14, 2003 at 12:31:22:
> I am a 5 and mostly happy.
> Are you sure you're a 5? I am naturally introverted but I don't not talk to people because I fear rejection I don't talk to them because I feel I am irrelevant to them... I nearly didn't post this follow up. The 8 thing of feeling quite secure with my 5ness made me.
> I have to keep telling myself I am relevant, at least at some level. The response you have around other people makes you sound like an introvert 4. You want to invoke an emotional response in them of acceptance... sounds like. Of course I don't know you... so you probably are a 5.
****Well, I am a self-identified 5w4. I also took the MBTI and came up INTP (close on F and very close on J). Above all, I am analytical and a thinker. My need to be alone and think about things leaves me with a feeling of isolation, which can definitely be a problem for fives. I think as I am getting a little older, and thus gaining more wisdom, I am realizing that people's acceptance of myself is just my way to maintain a rational order in the outer world. I want to connect with other people in meaningful ways (as a four wing), but cannot sustain a relationship with someone based on emotion alone. Intellectual stimulation and having my "alone time" are my main objectives in a relationship. I have assumed hitherto that I was a four, becuase I can get caught up in the emotional fray of life. But that is only in periods of confusion and isolation, etc. When I am at my best, I am working alone focusing on analytical problems, discussing issues with fellow thinkers, or simply existing...observing life and its foibles is a great experience for me.
> What you have to understand is that 5s generally always play a long game and always lose round 1. Round 1 should be all about scoping out the situation testing it to see if you can understand what's going on. If 5s don't understand something they are absolutely hopeless. So you have to bite your lip and be prepared to not get the result you want first time round.
****Understanding is definitely a good thing. Thank you for helping me look at it in a new way.
> The swing comes in the next round where you understand the thing that's scaring you. A 5 will always understand it better than anyone else and as long as you don't get lost in your stress point then you can use the 7 capacity to generalise and dream coupled with your natural perceptiveness to make a few 'lucky' guesses.
> The only reason a 5 fails to achieve their objective in the long run is because they become secure 8 like and dogmatic.
> The winning strategy for a 5 (or one of them, the one I use) is called 'I might be wrong' (I've already used it once above). You take on the humility, the ultimate 5 humility, of being wrong and admit that to the other person before you start.
> The thing is often you are wrong first time out. 5s can see so far ahead of right now that often when in something new (and therefore stressful) they get lost in their visions of the long game. Use others to give you a reality check. That way you can proceed on real facts and always achieve in the end.
****I think when fives get into a state of despair or worry, they can only see far ahead if they are completely healthy and wise. I am 22, and have been essentially a loner (with a few friends at a time) my entire life, and have only experienced loneliness recently (the last couple years). That has lead me to desire human relationships, but also fear them because they are certainly uncertain. I have an enneagram book that describes the different levels of healthiness in the types. Fives experience more and more anxiety and distress as they disintegrate towards seven. I see myself as probably an average five. I have problems, but am not completely messed up or anything... I just don't know how to deal with emotions and with most people (people without depth). This is why I focus so much on what people think, because I feel like the only way we will get along is for me to have control over the situation, because I have found that most people cannot be trusted. I have recently begun experimenting with extroversion more and find it helps me achieve that inner consistency I have longed for. I can have people like me on a superficial level, but at the same time I can feel free to be myself. Also, I am basically learning that you can learn something from pretty much everyone, even if it's only the way "not to be". The more wisdom I acquire, the better I feel about life.
> Post any questions below. And give me a reality check (see.)
Sorry, posted everything in between your message. Write back with your comments, if you want. :) Jenny
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