Posted by Hyperion (126.96.36.199) on May 17, 2003 at 02:43:36:
In Reply to: Re: J/P MBTI Observations in 5's posted by Mike Judge (188.8.131.52) on May 16, 2003 at 14:03:36:
* I can definitely see some of myself in your descriptions of J's; however, interestingly, some of the ideas actually seem reversed between myself and my P. *
This is natural. I cannot think of anyone who is purely P or J - it is always an assortment of sorts with a dominant leaning to either P or J. But I noticed that P types maybe more likely to drift to J by necessity than J drifting to P.
* However as I'm sure you know all of these personality systems are necessarily generalizations and specific manifestations are rather arbitrary since they develop within specific contexts. *
Indeed. Nothing is ever so simple.
* For example, she thus far seems more goal-oriented than I am (although her goals shift more than mine). Also I would say I am less outwardly traditional/conventional than she is, but again I attribute that to social milieu and experience rather than intrinsic inclination. *
I had a traditional childhood, traditional parents (father is ISTJ, mother is ESFJ) and traditional upbringing and yet I became increasingly nonconformist as I grew older and as I relied on my own thoughts and feelings rather than theirs.
* You wrote, "judging types tend to nag, criticize and act like control freaks"; for me I would say this is not true. *However*, internally I do experience the *desire* to pursue such activities fairly frequently, particularly within an intimate relationship. *
I suppose people in love automatically become NF even if only temporarily - and being NF makes you more sensitive and empathic to your loved one's emotions and makes you less likely to criticize coldly and needlessly. Beware though that once you are beyond the "falling in love" phase - you will be increasingly more analytical and behave like your natural NT as opposed to NF behavior.
* I must consciously wait for this emotion to pass, else I'm liable to engage in a dialog (or diatribe!) that will ultimately prove to be useless. I have been examining this within myself lately, and I believe it is a result of my fears: of rejection, of betrayal, of being judged. *
Fear of impending failure is actually more of an INTP trait than usually over confident INTJ. Perhaps you are an INTx with both P and J traits. I certainly am more like INxP myself than pure INTP myself.
Also, INTPs can consciously transform into INTJ to get something done if and when logic dictates that it is the best course of action. In fact I've done it a number of times.
* A J's criticism is to relationships as a P's ________ is to relationships? I would guess...distance? Lack of presence or awareness of the other's emotional state? *
Lack of commitment. P types love freedom, flexibility and variety and we are afaid to lose these priviledges if and when tied up in a commited relationships with someone. This does not mean P types are disloyal, cold or likely to cheat. It just takes us more time to commit.
INTP types also rely less on vocal communication. More than any type - INTPs hate to state the obvious, and we are ardent believers of "action speak louder than words" and are likely to be silent even on important issues. Unfortunately, what is obvious to the INTP might not be so obvious to others. The INTP does not need any formal vows to be loyal and deeply commited. Indeed most INTPs who are also mostly atheists who do not believe in obsolete barbaric ceremonies (like marriages) will be monogamous and loyal to a mate for a lifetime. (typical INTP logic: one mate is more than enough complication)
* If you've had a relationship with an INTJ I'd be curious about your personal observations and recommendations. *
I've had relationships with two ESTJs only. Both eventually thought that I was too unpredictable and out of this world and I got dumped. Consider that a warning if you want to pursue ESTJs. They seem to want to destroy or cut off what they cannot understand. :)
The P in me complicates matters. I am naturally curious about and attracted to the complimentary (exact opposite) ESxJ but the NF part of me wants an NF partner and the NT part of me wants an NT partner. Naturally, I haven't decided which way to go yet. :)
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